Jan Garden Castro Papers, 1957-2014 | MS Manuscripts

By Alicia Detelich

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Collection Overview

Title: Jan Garden Castro Papers, 1957-2014

Predominant Dates:1970-2010

ID: MS/MS/ms136

Primary Creator: Castro, Jan Garden

Extent: 58.8 Linear Feet. More info below.

Date Acquired: 07/27/2005. More info below under Accruals.

Languages: English, French

Scope and Contents of the Materials

The Jan Garden Castro papers consist primarily of research materials, writings, and correspondence related to Castro's extensive career as a literary and art critic and her roles as a civic arts activist and co-founder/former Executive Director of River Styx literary magazine in Saint Louis, Missouri. Included are numerous original transcripts of Castro's interviews with notable artists and literary figures, as well as typescript drafts, photocopies and clippings of published book and art reviews written by Castro. Notable interviewees include Margaret Atwood, Allen Ginsberg, Quincy Troupe, Eavan Boland, Chakaia Booker, Howard Nemerov, and John Hollander. Additionally, the collection includes Castro's published and unpublished poetry, exhibit catalog essays, and other writings; materials related to the production of River Styx Magazine, Castro's educational and teaching materials, and assorted print materials and manuscripts collected by Castro throughout her career. The collection includes notebooks and diaries kept by Castro and a collection of audiovisual materials consisting of Castro's taped interviews with artists and poetry readings from the Duff's and River Styx PM Series. The original donations also included a large number of rare art books, which have since been transferred to Rare Books or the Art and Architecture Library. Finally, this collection contains 122 born-digital items (approx. 5 GB; 3871 total files); 71 floppy disks, 7 CDs, and 3 DVDs are currently accessible. The DVDs are surrogates; the files on these disks were compiled by former processing archivist Alicia Detelich and consist of scans, downloaded web content, and born-digital publications.For preservation and access purposes, most of the disks were imaged with either Guymager or FTK to maintain the original disk structure. In this collection, a disk image was not created for disks that Castro did not create herself, disks that would not boot, and disks that were inaccessible due to lack of hardware. Each item was assigned a Special Collections library identifier, scanned for viruses, run through a bulk-exractor program to remove Personal Identifiying Information (PII), and uploaded to WUSTL's server. Please contact Special Collections for more information about the born-digital material in this collection.

Collection Historical Note

Jan Garden Castro (1945-) is an American author, editor, poet, literary and art critic, teacher, and arts activist. Born and raised in Saint Louis, Missouri, and currently residing in New York City, Castro attended Cornell University and the University of Wisconsin at Madison for her undergraduate studies, earning a Bachelor of Arts in 1967. She later earned a Master of Arts in Teaching from Washington University in Saint Louis in 1974, and a Master of Arts in Art History from Washington University in 1994.

Castro's extensive writing career began in 1968, while she was living in San Francisco, with several features published in the Daily Californian and the San Francisco Express Times. Upon returning to Saint Louis around 1970, Castro wrote for several underground newspapers, often under the pseudonym Jasmine or Sunflower, and published poems in local and national literary journals. In 1972 she married Michael Castro in Graham Chapel at Washington University, and with him and several other local poets and artists founded River Styx literary magazine in 1975. Between 1975 and 1987 Castro served as an editor of River Styx, and eventually its Executive Director. She contributed significant material to the journal during this time, including poems, editorial notes, and interviews with Ansel Adams, Margaret Atwood, Allen Ginsberg, and many other well-known artists and writers. The River Styx group also organized many poetry readings and local cultural events, most notably the River Styx PM series at the Saint Louis Art Museum and Missouri Botanical Garden, and the Duff's Poetry Series, held at Duff's restaurant in the Central West End. In 1975 Castro wrote and self-published her first poetry compilation, Mandala of the Five Senses. She also served as a teacher at several local secondary schools and colleges during this period.

In 1985 Castro's first major book was published by Crown Publishers, a biography of George O'Keeffe titled The Art and Life of Georgia O'Keeffe. In 1988 she co-edited a compilation of scholarly essays on Margaret Atwood titled Margaret Atwood, Vision and Forms. During the 1980s Castro also published several poems and book reviews in local and national publications, and taught courses as an adjunct professor at Lindenwood College (now University) in Saint Charles, Missouri. In addition to her publishing and teaching activities, Castro also organized a number of cultural events in the Saint Louis area, including the 1987 Heart of Saint Louis Arts festival, and traveled throughout the country giving lectures on art history and the work of Georgia O'Keeffe.

During the 1990s Castro wrote extensively for the Saint Louis Post-Dispatch and the Riverfront Times, providing these publications with numerous pieces of literary and art criticism. She continued to publish poetry and read her poems at local artistic and cultural events, and otherwise kept up her involvement with local arts activities. Additionally, Castro participated in several continuing education institutes, including the Camargo Institute, the American Academy in Rome, and two National Endowment for the Humanities seminars. In 1996, Castro began writing art exhibit reviews and interviews for Sculpture Magazine, and has since published more than 16 cover stories for the journal. Her involvement with Sculpture continues to the present day, and has included significant interviews with Liza Lou, Richard Serra, Rachel Feinstein, and many other artists. Castro also writes articles for Ceramics: Art and Perception, has written catalog essays for many local and national artists, and also has published fictional works through the online journal The Adirondack Review.

In 2001 Castro guest-curated a retrospective exhibit on Sonia Delaunay in Tokyo, Japan. Delaunay was the subject of Castro's master's thesis, and Castro has done extensive research and writing on the artist. As part of her work for the Delaunay retrospective, Castro organized and wrote the catalog for the exhibit.

During her career Castro has published more than 425 articles, essays, and interviews for a wide variety of publishing outlets. As of March 2014 she continues to publish frequently for several publications.

Administrative Information

Repository: MS Manuscripts

Accruals:

Accession No. 23074, 23082. July 2005

Accession No. 23908. 28 August 2007

Accession No. 23962. 2010

Accession No. 2014.006. 19 March 2014

Alternate Extent Statement: 5 GB (approx.); 3871 files

Access Restrictions: Open

Use Restrictions:

Users of the collection must read and agree to abide by the rules and procedures set forth in the Materials Use Policies.

Providing access to materials does not constitute permission to publish or otherwise authorize use. All publication not covered by fair use or other exceptions is restricted to those who have permission of the copyright holder, which may or may not be Washington University.

If you wish to publish or license Special Collections materials, please contact Special Collections to inquire about copyright status at (314) 935-5495 or spec@wumail.wustl.edu. (Publish means quotation in whole or in part in seminar or term papers, theses or dissertations, journal articles, monographs, books, digital forms, photographs, images, dramatic presentations, transcriptions, or any other form prepared for a limited or general public.)

Technical Access Note: The library cannot provide access to all born-digital materials due to lack of required hardware/software. Requests for born-digtial material may require advanced notice. Please contact Special Collections for more details.

Acquisition Source: Gift, Purchase

Related Materials:

See Jan Garden Castro collection of Margaret Atwood materials, located at the Thomas Fischer Rare Book Library, University of Toronto, Canada. Extent 8 boxes, 1.5 meters

See also Jan Garden Castro donation to Georgia O'Keeffe Museum, Santa Fe, New Mexico.

See also Jan Garden Castro Writings: Artists Mapping the Future, an electronic archive of Castro's writings on comptemporary art and artists.

For more information please see http://www.jancastro.com/.

Preferred Citation: Name of the Collection, Washington University Libraries, Department of Special Collections

Processing Information:

The original order of the collection as established by Castro has largely been maintained, with the exception of a number of miscellaneous and unlabeled folders that contained a wide variety of materials. These materials were filed into the appropriate series or subseries as determined by the processor. The order of materials within folders has mostly been maintained, with the exception of obvious filing mistakes. Folder titles were generally maintained, with the exception of miscellaneous and unlabeled folders; dates were also added to folders where appropriate, and some additional specifics were added when titles were unclear (i.e. 'Writings' may have been changed to 'Unpublished Writings 1971-1972'). Additionally, color photos, slides, and audiovisual materials were separated from their original locations within the Research and Educational Materials series, and have been rehoused together for preservation purposes. Finally, please note that not all folders have series titles or folder numbers included. For details about arrangement refer to finding aid.

See mss23962_BD_AccReport for information about born-digital content.

Finding Aid Revision History: Revised on 8/15/2018 by Elizabeth Winter under the supervision of Robert Manley

Box and Folder Listing

Browse by Series:

[Series 1: Correspondence],
[Series 2: Writings],
[Series 3: Notebooks, Journals, Diaries],
[Series 4: Research Materials],
[Series 5: Manuscripts By Others],
[Series 6: Print Materials],
[Series 7: River Styx],
[Series 8: Civic and Cultural Activities],
[Series 9: Educational Materials],
[Series 10: Personal Papers],
[Series 11: Audiovisual Materials],
[Series 12: Realia],
[Series 13: Born Digital Materials (Electronic Records)],
[All]

Series 13: Born Digital Materials (Electronic Records)

Consists of Jan Garden Castro’s floppy disks, CDs, and DVDs, which contain documents, images, and audio created during her extensive career as a literary and art critic.

The original titles provided by Castro on the materials have been maintained and transcribed.

Advanced notice may be required to supply requisite materials. Some materials are inaccessible due to lack of required hardware/software. Please contact Special Collections for more details.

Item 1: Dual 8 Film

Not processed. Will eventually be added to Series 11: Audiovisual Materials.

Box 14

Item 1: Original Book - Sonia Delaunay: Floppy Disc
Item 2: Sonia Delaunay - La Moderne Catalogue: Floppy Disc
Item 3: Rutgers Art/Sonia Delaunay Book 1: Floppy Disc
Item 4: New Exhibit List - July: Floppy Disc
Item 5: New Exhibit List: Floppy Disc
Item 6: Sonia Delaunay - La Moderne Exhibition 12/21/01: Floppy Disc
Item 7: Japan Labels 7-7-01; Japan Essay 7-7-01; Japan Bib + Chron. + Update
Item 8: New HU Text 2/3/01: Floppy Disc; Inaccesssible (lack of required hardware)
Item 9: Mrs. Cohen's list - Delaunay Collectors: Floppy Disc
Item 10: New Exhibit checklist copy 7-7-01 - Disk 1: Floppy Disc
Item 11: New Exhibit List copy 7-7-01 Disk 2: Floppy Disc
Item 12: New Exhibit List copy 7-7-01 Disk 3: Floppy Disc
Item 13: New Exhibit List copy 7-7-01 Disk 4 - Japan List: Floppy Disc
Item 14: New Exhibit List copy 7-7-01 Disk 5: Floppy Disc
Item 15: Japan 2003 - Warhol Final 2-25-03: Floppy Disc
Item 16: Rutgers data - Delaunay collectors - copy 7-7-01 Disk 6: Floppy Disc
Item 17: Delaunay collectors - 7-7-01 copy Disk 7 - career: Floppy Disc
Item 18: Work disk 1 - copy 1 - 12-19-2001; arts consultant Delaunay 2001: Floppy Disc
Item 19: Work disk 2 - Delaunay file, Delaunay book - 2001: Floppy Disc
Item 20: Blues in Art draft 4 - Christo - Christopher Merrill; Arnason: Floppy Disc
Item 21: Work disk 3 - Delaunay bk, collectors, exhibit list 2001: Floppy Disc
Item 22: Work disk 4 - Exhibition list, 2001: Floppy Disc
Item 23: Work disk 5 - Exhibition list, museum collections, my documents: Floppy Disc
Item 24: Work disk 6 - my documents, new exhibit list, new HU text: Floppy Disc
Item 25: Disk 7 - work - exhibit checklist, new text HU, poetry + fiction 2001: Floppy Disc
Item 26: Disk 8 - 2001 - Poetry - Sculpture: Floppy Disc
Item 27: Disk 9 - 2001 - Sculpture, Teaching + PD - 2 images Julius: Floppy Disc
Item 28: Yu 501 SD/Dorival/tender/grants/intro/translat/daily-hu/F-alegr/danto….: Floppy Disc
Item 29: Copy/interviews - Hoog, Seuphor, Dorival: Floppy Disc; Inaccessible (lack of required hardware)
Item 30: Art/Sculpture - Brower/Hatcher Pulitzer - Install view 15 files: Floppy Disc; Inaccessible (Could not boot)
Item 31: Installation view 15 files; R. Chambers, Bass files: Floppy Disc
Item 32: Bass files/Bedia: Floppy Disc
Item 33: Maya Lin, Harper Correspondence, Old artists - Puryear, Bruegel, de St. Croix, Galerie Le Long, Sontag, Dorfman, Pfaff, Kozloff: Floppy Disc; Inaccessible (Could not boot)
Item 34: Bass/Bedia cont., Diane Camper, Vassiliev, BodyWork, Laumeier, Harper: Floppy Disc
Item 35: Maya Lin Final Essay, Coyne, Bourgeois, Storm King, Mary Miss, Chakaia Booker: Floppy Disc
Item 36: British Sculptors, Ursula's art, Patricia Cronin, Vassiliev 1913 photo, Henri Foucault, Kobi's art: Floppy Disc
Item 37: Kobayashi cont.: Floppy Disc
Item 38: Kobi in Studio: Floppy Disc
Item 39: John Rus, Kobi Baton: Floppy Disc
Item 40: R. Chambers/Bass interview 2002 + Bedia images, Warhol 9-30-03: Floppy Disc
Item 41: Chambers/Bass files, Japan talk July '02, Ursula 2002, Cronin files: Floppy Disc
Item 42: Rutgers talk, R. Chambers/Bass files, Margaret Drabble, Final Cronin 9/13/02, Liza Lou: Floppy Disc
Item 43: Sculpture, Picasso review, Bourgeois essay, vitae, Ch. 21/prologue: Floppy Disc
Item 44: New Lamm prologue, Cate, new Ch. 21, Bourgeois, Roma - poetry, Notebooks Ch. 4-5: Floppy Disc
Item 45: Exhibition Checklist - 6-9-2000, Bogliasco - Mrs. Cohen's List (6 files), Museum Collections folder (12 files): Floppy Disc
Item 46: Exhibition Checklist - 6-9-2000 - 15 files, including Elaine Cohen, from Andre Zaare to Trelstad-Hutton: Floppy Disc
Item 47: Delaunay collectors 4-7-2000: Floppy Disc
Item 48: Career 4-7-2000, Daily-hu + grades, Poetry: 15 files 6-8-2000: Floppy Disc
Item 49: Camargo.doc, c:\winword\bibcam.doc, copies of 44 files 4-18-95: Floppy Disc
Item 50: Career, Camargo, American Academy: Floppy Disc
Item 51: Copy 10-17-97 - c:\windows\2 paris.doc, \frcorres.doc, \parisiii.doc, \watercr.doc, c:\winword\1-russ.doc, \2-paris.doc, 3-spain.doc, 4-paris.doc, 5-abstr.doc, 6-solo.doc, 7-Legacy.doc, a-chron.doc, a-poem.doc, a-sze.doc, abr.doc, acknow.doc, adamcon.doc: Floppy Disc; Inaccessible (lack of required hardware)
Item 52: Copy 10-17-97 - watercr.doc, career.doc, watercr.2.doc: Floppy Disc
Item 53: StL-lit.doc, St. Louis Lit 1942-96 - MHS project 6-96: Floppy Disc
Item 54: Gombrich, Wu-6, Wu-7 post pub, art lecture, dead magician, Russian aesthetics: Floppy Disc
Item 55: AH 4773 - gender, Egypt, gender short story: Floppy Disc; Inaccessible (lack of required hardware)
Item 56: Gombrich - NEH 5, exile, Wu-7, Surre-1, notebks.doc, Step-6, art-hist.doc, colter-5, alegria.doc, outline/parisiii, russia1, sontag: Floppy Disc
Item 57: Interviews - Stackhouse: Floppy Disc
Item 58: Notebks - novel, 16 June 1992: Floppy Disc
Item 59: Copy 2-16-96 - burr.doc, frcorres.bak, a-chron.bak, post-pak, diary.bak, sculpt.bak, tamra.bak, byron.bak, trova.bak, slup.bak, bib-cam.bak, carl.bak, watercr.bak, rft-4.bak, molit.bak, career.bak, poet.bak, burro.bak, camargo.bak, NEH.bak, MHS-A.bak, Danto.bak, Daily-hu.bak: Floppy Disc
Item 60: UC-CID.doc [dos.asc format], 2 radio scripts on U. City Civic Plaza + Central Institute for Deaf: Floppy Disc
Item 61: SD bk Chs 4-6 BIBH, 15 June 1992: Floppy Disc
Item 62: Notebooks - Novel - '89: Floppy Disc; Inaccessible (lack of required hardware)
Item 63: 5-22-95 copy - artforum.doc, mhs-a.doc, mohist.doc, molit.doc, umsl.doc, miles.doc, byron.doc, rft3.doc; 9-16-95 copy - rft3.doc, post.doc, trova.doc, molit.doc, watercr.doc, daily-hu.doc: Floppy Disc
Item 64: Mohist, merrill, miles, mhs-a, molit, morrison, geadme, pemplate, rewmacro, cress: Floppy Disc
Item 65: gassan.bak, bib.cam.bak, rft.bak, GOK.bak, RD-Revs, Aegerl, YU501SD, Troupe1, Tender, Gass, daily-hu, career, watercre, tampa, river, camargo, RU-5, GOK, Yurdoch, Trop2: Floppy Disc
Item 66: 5-1-95 - pinckney.doc, easterly.doc, rft2.doc, murray.doc, pd-revs.doc, fiber.doc, forum.doc (altered states), rft,doc (early reviews): Floppy Disc
Item 67: UC-CID.doc, U-City Civic Plaza, Central Institute for the deaf [dos.asc format], 2 KWMU radio scripts: Floppy Disc
Item 68: The Art of Betty Woodman - Press Images - The Metropolitan Museum of Art April 25-July 30, 2006: Compact Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 69: Erika Harrsch - Object of Desire - Art-work - Painting, photography installation, video 1992-2007: Compact Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 70: Castro: 5 by S. Delaunay x2 - by Sculptor: Compact Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 71: Jan's 5 by S. Delaunay x2 - by Sculptor: Compact Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 72: Serra Discards: Compact Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 73: Serra Discards: Compact Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 74: Serra Discards: Compact Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 75: Serra Discards: Compact Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 76: Mara Adamitz Scrupe Performance Interventions, Relational Site Installations - Exhibit images 2010, Artist Books: Compact Disc; from Research Material (Gallery and/or museum exhibition promotional materials. Does not contain files created by Castro)
Item 77: Lunne Golob Gelfman - Across: New Paintings: Compact Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 78: Village Settlement - Vermont Photos: Compact Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 79: Ed Levine - Philadelphia Installation: Compact Disc; from Research Materials (Gallery and/or museum exhibition promotional materials. Does not contain files created by Castro)
Item 80: Kodak Picture CD: Compact disk; from Research Materials (Gallery and/or museum exhibition promotional materials; Does not contain files created by Castro)
Item 81: Unlabeled CD-R: Compact Disk; from Research Materials (Gallery and/or museum exhibition promotional materials. Does not contain files created by Castro)
Item 82: Daum Museum of Contemporary Art Jun Kaneko Exhibition: Compact Disk; from Research Materials (Gallery and/or museum exhibition promotional materials. Does not contain files created by Castro)
Item 83: Swoon Exhibit Images: Compact Disc; from Research Materials (Gallery and/or museum exhibition promotional materials. Does not contain files created by Castro)
Item 84: On the Wall: Wallpaper and Tableau - The Fabric Workshop and Museum May 9-September 13, 2003: Compact Disc; from Research Materials (Gallery and/or museum exhibition promotional materials. Does not contain files created by Castro)
Item 85: Rob Fischer - Cohan and Leslie: Compact Disc; from Research Materials (Gallery and/or museum exhibition promotional materials. Does not contain files created by Castro)
Item 86: Rob Fischer Exhibits 2- Whitney at Atria: Compact Disc; from Research Materials (Gallery and/or museum exhibition promotional materials. Does not contain files created by Castro)
Item 87: Cai Guo-Qian on the Roof: Transparent Monument; The Metropolitan Museum of Art; April 25-October 29, 2006: Compact Disc; from Research Materials (Gallery and/or museum exhibition promotional materials. Does not contain files created by Castro)
Item 88: Axi: Ome: Sung Ho Kim; Compact Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 89: Adam Frelin - Water Rerouting Initiatives - 5 minute QuickTime video: Compact Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 90: Adam Frelin - Water Rerouting Initiatives - 5 minute QuickTime video: Compact Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 91: Pulse - 4-minute trailer and full-length version - Adam Frelin: Compact Disc; from Research Materials (Gallery and/or musueum exhibition materials. does not contain files created by Castro)
Item 92: Unlabeled: Dove Bradshaw exhibit; Compact Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 93: John E. Rozelle - Recent Work 1999-2001: Compact Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 94: World Saxophone Quartet: Requiem for Julius, 2000: Compact Disc
Item 96: Jan Castro and Wiliiem von Hombracht, 2001: August 8: CD-DA (Audio disk)

Box 15

Item 1: Delaunay Disk 3 - From HP Scanner ScanJet 4C OmniPage Master: Floppy Disc; Inaccessible (lack of required hardware)
Item 2: Rozelle - Guggenheim Fellowship: Floppy Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 3: Delaunay Disk 2 - From HP Scanner ScanJet 4C OmniPage Master: Floppy Disc; Inaccessible (lack of required hardware)
Item 4: Chambers interview + photo labels: Floppy Disc; No contents (Empty disk)
Item 5: Henri Foucault - 8/8/98 - MS-Dos Word Document: Floppy Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 6: Moustapha Dime review: Floppy Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 7: Serra2 - 10-14-98: Floppy Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 8: Serra2 - Word for Windows, Earth and Soul - Jackie Brookner Review: Floppy Disc; from Research Materials – includes separation note
Item 9: watercr.doc, pd-2, camargo, sculpt2.doc, watercr2.doc, backup files Apr 97, attny.doc, career.doc: Floppy Disc; Inaccessible (lack of required hardware)
Item 10: Copy 61 files 3 May '96 - RFT-4.doc, Geadme.doc, F-Alegr.doc, Racrocnv.doc, rewmacro.doc, rraphics, pemplate.doc, jomo.doc, trova.doc, gass.doc: Floppy Disc
Item 11: 60 files - 3 may 96: Floppy Disc
Item 12: burr.doc, 6 January 1996: Floppy Disc
Item 13: Hall-Lee.asc - review 9-27-95: Floppy Disc
Item 14: Drafts - B-Gass.doc, gass.doc; a-g-ed.doc, Leger - laeger1.doc, sargent.doc: Floppy Disc; Inaccessible (lack of required hardware)
Item 15: RFT disk 23 May 95 - Friend.doc, Herb.doc, Madsen.doc, Mark2.doc: Floppy Disc
Item 16: 8-30-95 - limp.doc, church.doc, miles.doc: Floppy Disc
Item 17: 5-13-96 - bak files - post, bib-cam, intro, a-chron, money, sculpt., career, camargo, byron, daily, trova, agent, sd-prop, a-poem, rft-4, affton, molit: Floppy Disc
Item 18: Poetry, waintrob, notebks, etc.: Floppy Disc; Inaccessible (lack of required hardware)
Item 19: UMSL.doc, adams.doc, eavanb.doc, eb.doc, fox-cd.doc, hemphil.doc, abakan.doc, artforum.doc, brown.doc, gassan.doc, morrison.doc, step-6.doc, troupe1.doc: Floppy Disc
Item 20: Miller, fox, NEH, atwood, Tajan, Doering, gender, Beth, OK, anniv, PD-art-P, Troupe, French, NR: Floppy Disc

Box 16

Item 1: Castro, Jan 12-15-14; 2014 publs; 17 files for 3-4 periodicals + scupture.org; new pdfs for WU, 2014: March 28: DVD-R; Surrogate (Created by processor Alicia Detelich)
Item 2: Jan Gardent Castro; Publications 28 march 2014: DVD-R; Surrogate (Created by processor Alicia Detelich)
Item 3: Castro Processing Docs + Scans from PC w/ Scanner 3/28/14: DVD-R; Surrogate (Created by processor Alicia Detelich)